If your relocating to a new area, especially your new retreat area, consider a new name or a nickname. An assumed name will prevent a connection, to you, if problems arise from the wheels of justice. If the law is looking to serve you with court papers especially a summons to appear, serving the person named is often a necessary step in removing more of your rights likewise a means of applying pressure.
A legal name change is more complicated, and that's another post entirely. The nickname is just picking a new name and running with it. In small areas people will commonly ask your last name, there not necessarily being nosy, usually there trying to establish weather or not they know your relatives, so think of assuming a last name as well.
When California was railroading me, there favorite trick is to remove a driver's license, When it was transferred to Montana, they had a state requirement to serve me notice. In Montana they use deputies to serve people (in CA they contract out for process service, that's what started this whole thing. They literally threw my summons away, and got the judgment by default; try disproving you were served 12 yrs later, after they seized your money and assets).
When Montana wanted to serve me, They simply asked around town for anyone who knew me, After months they found someone who directed them to my property. If I had been using a different name this connection would never have been made. A name change is a dead end for anyone seeking to put the screws to you.
Usually Deputies will pursue the easy way of locating you, checking property records is something that doesn't occur to them (you should have your deed under a different name, how to do this is another post) The item they want to serve you with is not connected to you by any other means, If you were pulled over by the hwy patrol they would not know the sheriffs deputy is looking for you to serve you, they do not connect this type of thing by data bases. There is an envelop in the sheriffs office, when deputies have free time they grab the envelop and go look for you, sometimes they have allot of free time, therefore, more energy is applied in there quest. On the other hand if over time they fail to make a connection with someone who knows of you, they may give up assuming you are not in the area, A smart deputy will run your name for local information, like drivers license info, like, your address, Now I know you were smart and used a PO Box, on your DL.
Perhaps, you have no reason to hide. That's what I thought, once they get you its to late to hide. I dont want to just focus on a DL, there any range of things or reasons someone may want to track you down. Don't make it easy for them. If someone is tracking you down It isn't usually good and most likely there intent is not something you will enjoy.
WARNING; Some states like CA, use process servers that engage in garbage service, they will literately throw your documents away, and say they served you. This is a HUGE problem, they will then have court in your absence, then get a judgment to do what ever they want. But, again if your not locatable it will be tougher for them to have a corroborated address to claim they served you at. It makes their lies harder to make and easier for you to disprove later.
It never hurts to lay low. If you want something you know where to find it. Don't let something you don't want find you.
Sunday, December 20, 2009
Friday, December 18, 2009
Retreat-Ranch in progress, part IIII
Here is part 4 of Retreat Ranch, Today I want to tell you about the housing part of the project and how I would do it differently if I could.
The first thing I built on the property was a storage shed for tools and to house the generator it had a lock its not exactly Fort Knox but it will keep the honest folks honest. Its a post frame, also called a pole shed, 8 X 16 feet, with a flat roof. its basically posts and 2x6's for stringers and OSB for siding. A year or so later I panted it for weather resistance and used tar on the roof, its been a handy little shed for a long time. Its original purpose was to keep order of the tools so I don't have to carry everything back and forth. I was still living in town, and working the property on my off-time.This project only took 3 days and it was money and time well spent.
The three choices for ones abode, are listed in order of my preference a small cabin, an RV, the last and definitely the least is a trailer house.
I opted for a trailer house (because it was free). Free in this case was not the cheapest or best choice. Free sometimes is a lure for disaster, and this case is no exception. Trailer houses don't do well in extreme climates its too hot in the summer (perhaps that's because the wife is not dressed or wearing very little). A larger problem is with the cold, Being long and narrow makes heating very difficult, without a forced air furnace. Forced air simply uses to much power to operate when living off grid. I use wood heat, and a pro-comp radiant heater (propane). Both these work but much more resources are spent with heating the trailer house than wood be needed to heat a small cabin or an RV. Water lines freezing were a constant problem. I built solid skirting all the way around the trailer, Lines freezing were still a problem in the arctic climate of Montana. Also with cold air under the house, its harder to heat the living area. I rented a skid steer and buried the skirting by mounding dirt around the trailer, this works, but its been a huge waste of money and time. Also since I needed water I needed to build a water system this costs money as-well with a diaphragm tank low voltage pump and plumbing. An RV would have been set-up with a water system. The water heater was no good so I replaced that. The trailer had a new furnace but a power sucking pig is no use to me so I was able to sell this on Craigslist, That helped but, long story short my expenses were probably in the 5k range. I had also payed the mobile home toter to haul the trailer. My labor was days just to get the trailer road ready for the move. The whole ordeal was certainly not worth the time energy and money. Even after all this all I have to show for my money and labor is an old trailer.
If I could do-it over I would buy an RV, I see them around for 1k all the time now. Perhaps it would have costs more then, but still a better option. I would live in the RV and put the money into a cabin something like a 15x20. both would be much cheaper to heat.
Another problem was the permit to move the trailer house. The toter would not haul it without. This was cheap like in the 50 bucks range. The other problem with the permit is they notified the county where my property is located, that the trailer was moved out there. The trailer on my land increased the tax rate, the increase was slight but still taxes suck.
So, expensive lesson for me, but a free lesson for you. If this saves another some cash and time perhaps, my experience was not in vane.
The first thing I built on the property was a storage shed for tools and to house the generator it had a lock its not exactly Fort Knox but it will keep the honest folks honest. Its a post frame, also called a pole shed, 8 X 16 feet, with a flat roof. its basically posts and 2x6's for stringers and OSB for siding. A year or so later I panted it for weather resistance and used tar on the roof, its been a handy little shed for a long time. Its original purpose was to keep order of the tools so I don't have to carry everything back and forth. I was still living in town, and working the property on my off-time.This project only took 3 days and it was money and time well spent.
The three choices for ones abode, are listed in order of my preference a small cabin, an RV, the last and definitely the least is a trailer house.
I opted for a trailer house (because it was free). Free in this case was not the cheapest or best choice. Free sometimes is a lure for disaster, and this case is no exception. Trailer houses don't do well in extreme climates its too hot in the summer (perhaps that's because the wife is not dressed or wearing very little). A larger problem is with the cold, Being long and narrow makes heating very difficult, without a forced air furnace. Forced air simply uses to much power to operate when living off grid. I use wood heat, and a pro-comp radiant heater (propane). Both these work but much more resources are spent with heating the trailer house than wood be needed to heat a small cabin or an RV. Water lines freezing were a constant problem. I built solid skirting all the way around the trailer, Lines freezing were still a problem in the arctic climate of Montana. Also with cold air under the house, its harder to heat the living area. I rented a skid steer and buried the skirting by mounding dirt around the trailer, this works, but its been a huge waste of money and time. Also since I needed water I needed to build a water system this costs money as-well with a diaphragm tank low voltage pump and plumbing. An RV would have been set-up with a water system. The water heater was no good so I replaced that. The trailer had a new furnace but a power sucking pig is no use to me so I was able to sell this on Craigslist, That helped but, long story short my expenses were probably in the 5k range. I had also payed the mobile home toter to haul the trailer. My labor was days just to get the trailer road ready for the move. The whole ordeal was certainly not worth the time energy and money. Even after all this all I have to show for my money and labor is an old trailer.
If I could do-it over I would buy an RV, I see them around for 1k all the time now. Perhaps it would have costs more then, but still a better option. I would live in the RV and put the money into a cabin something like a 15x20. both would be much cheaper to heat.
Another problem was the permit to move the trailer house. The toter would not haul it without. This was cheap like in the 50 bucks range. The other problem with the permit is they notified the county where my property is located, that the trailer was moved out there. The trailer on my land increased the tax rate, the increase was slight but still taxes suck.
So, expensive lesson for me, but a free lesson for you. If this saves another some cash and time perhaps, my experience was not in vane.
Thursday, December 17, 2009
Retreat-Ranch ,Just some thoughts on land.
I have been thinking, the biggest problem with getting land is the money. That's not exactly a news flash but . I wanted to talk about money and land. If a person doesn't have the money for an out-right purchase of land it doesn't mean they are left in the cold. The best option for a retreat is to own the land.Presumably as long as you pay the tax it is yours (by the way checking the tax rate before your purchase is a good thing to know). But, If you wait till you have the cash you may wait a long time and then it may be too late. Whats that saying 'progress waits for no man'. ? I dont know if that's it, it works well for the context so lets run with it. One of the biggest benefits of of a retreat lifestyle is living a frugal lifestyle, not only are you using less power because yours is homemade and also no power bill. You may have generator fuel Ours currently is only 20 bucks a month. Your consumption is apparent to you everyday. You have to check voltage often and avoid or omit using some electrical appliances. In town you just use whatever you want, and the bill is a surprise. To drain your batteries prematurely is an inconvenience, because you will then need to devote energy to restoring power. So you conserve for convenience. Same with shopping. Its a pain to drive to town to pickup items for dinner. Living in town you might do it daily. Not to mention the fuel. But out of town you shop ahead again for convenience. Your shopping ahead is saving money to buy in bulk or purchase larger amounts because it happens to be on sale. So now groceries are cheaper because you want the convenience of having more food on hand. Perhaps even less vehicle fuel than when you lived in town, maybe the occasional trip to town is less than daily trips in town. If you drive to town to work then the point is moot. But there is numerous ways to live cheaper from your retreat than in town. You are independent and in control of all your utilities. Your remote location is a buffer zone between you and the rest.
Lets say you stay in your place in town because you waited till you were in a position to pay cash. Then something big happens, your fellow city dwellers being patient reasonable ones, react to disaster by; riot theft and looting. You awake the morning of the riots, your living room has been struck by a stray Molotov cocktail. Your house is filled with smoke, your wife is streaking naked through the house screaming at the top of her lungs, your barely awake struggling to gather your BOB out of the closest its become entangled in the wire shoe rack fastened to the door. Eventually you have your bag and battle rifle. Both of you escape your house from the bedroom window. You get to the street to find your sport utility (or bug out vehicle) has been another victim of the riots and is now inoperable. You and your wife flee on foot, its still the barely light hours of dawn, as you round the corner of the next block you come face to face with a LEO Riot Team. Your wife in relief screams out. The Riot Teem seeing a partial nude woman being held at the arm by a man with a rifle carrying a duffel bag reacts quickly, they perceived the encounter as a looter carrying a rifle with hostage, they gun you down.(oops!) Your wife in panic flees, its the last thing you see as you die on the sidewalk.
Now lets say you were set up on your retreat property you still have payments but you live there. You awaken from the rooster crow, You sit up in bed your wife is still sleeping (she always sleeps through the rooster crow) you get up to make the coffee. As your waiting for your percolator to perk you turn on the radio to learn the cities are engulfed in flames riots, and violence have erupted. Then your wife comes out to the kitchen (still naked) you offer her some coffee and sit to discuss the news of the collapse. You grin as you sip your coffee, thinking your glad not to be trapped in the city. Never to learn of your alternate fate of death on the side walk that same morning.
Financing from a bank is usually a problem, if you have the credit its something to look at, Most banks will not finance on vacant land. Some owners will carry a contract, this is the best option. If you find property for sale by owner, you could ask. Or better yet prepare an offer that includes terms. I once traded an old pick-up truck to a guy for a down payment, it was on an old house but the same idea. If you make a real offer they will at least look at it.Remember they want to sell the land, if they sell it to you on terms they make more money. You would have to pay the interest anyway.
Lets say you stay in your place in town because you waited till you were in a position to pay cash. Then something big happens, your fellow city dwellers being patient reasonable ones, react to disaster by; riot theft and looting. You awake the morning of the riots, your living room has been struck by a stray Molotov cocktail. Your house is filled with smoke, your wife is streaking naked through the house screaming at the top of her lungs, your barely awake struggling to gather your BOB out of the closest its become entangled in the wire shoe rack fastened to the door. Eventually you have your bag and battle rifle. Both of you escape your house from the bedroom window. You get to the street to find your sport utility (or bug out vehicle) has been another victim of the riots and is now inoperable. You and your wife flee on foot, its still the barely light hours of dawn, as you round the corner of the next block you come face to face with a LEO Riot Team. Your wife in relief screams out. The Riot Teem seeing a partial nude woman being held at the arm by a man with a rifle carrying a duffel bag reacts quickly, they perceived the encounter as a looter carrying a rifle with hostage, they gun you down.(oops!) Your wife in panic flees, its the last thing you see as you die on the sidewalk.
Now lets say you were set up on your retreat property you still have payments but you live there. You awaken from the rooster crow, You sit up in bed your wife is still sleeping (she always sleeps through the rooster crow) you get up to make the coffee. As your waiting for your percolator to perk you turn on the radio to learn the cities are engulfed in flames riots, and violence have erupted. Then your wife comes out to the kitchen (still naked) you offer her some coffee and sit to discuss the news of the collapse. You grin as you sip your coffee, thinking your glad not to be trapped in the city. Never to learn of your alternate fate of death on the side walk that same morning.
Financing from a bank is usually a problem, if you have the credit its something to look at, Most banks will not finance on vacant land. Some owners will carry a contract, this is the best option. If you find property for sale by owner, you could ask. Or better yet prepare an offer that includes terms. I once traded an old pick-up truck to a guy for a down payment, it was on an old house but the same idea. If you make a real offer they will at least look at it.Remember they want to sell the land, if they sell it to you on terms they make more money. You would have to pay the interest anyway.
Wednesday, December 16, 2009
Health Care
This new Health Care Plan will not extend to most people till 2014. They will also have to pay 1600 a month, and be fined if they do not.
This is true. Its also a good point to mention to those who support this bill.
The problems I see with this are much greater than socialism or an even larger fat sluggish top heavy government. My biggest fear and I'm sure it will come to be, in fact 'I would bet the farm on it'...........This program will grow to criminalize those who do not pay this required premium, and remember the $1600 is only for a single person, a family will be much higher. If you are divorced, your judgment likely says something like "must carry insurance at your expense if available" Well, now its available........so guess what? Now you have to get it or risk a bench warrant and jail time. Over time, even more if not all divorce and child support judgments will require you to pay health insurance (its done now with boring regularity).
This is bad, but the good news is, or the silver lining, is America's masses will all live in harmony and peace. We will be grateful Obaammaa graced the White House doorway, with his dark shadow........................But wait ... what about those dirty bastards that do not pay their Health Care? They will say they are the problem. They are why the health care program is going broke. It will be easy to cast them as villains. Remember the deadbeat dads of Clinton's welfare bill? ... His bill paved the way for states to villainize deadbeat dads by criminalizing them. They only needed to award judgments much higher than they could afford. That's why we have guys making only 10 bucks an hour and debts to the state 250k and higher. They over award the judgments, making it too high to pay. If you can't get the money, you have no choice, you can't pay. Then, usually most states charge 10% interest. The debt will never go away. They are a slave of half their income for the rest of there life.......The kid doesn't see the money, he or she is long gone. This is enforced by: garnishments, seizing accounts and assets, personal liens, real estate liens, license suspension, both driving and professional, seizing your passport. Don't forget an arrest warrant.
My concern is over time they will villainize the dead beat insurance citizen. In time, they will pass a bill to reform health care deadbeats. Then otherwise ordinary people will now be criminals.
This is true. Its also a good point to mention to those who support this bill.
The problems I see with this are much greater than socialism or an even larger fat sluggish top heavy government. My biggest fear and I'm sure it will come to be, in fact 'I would bet the farm on it'...........This program will grow to criminalize those who do not pay this required premium, and remember the $1600 is only for a single person, a family will be much higher. If you are divorced, your judgment likely says something like "must carry insurance at your expense if available" Well, now its available........so guess what? Now you have to get it or risk a bench warrant and jail time. Over time, even more if not all divorce and child support judgments will require you to pay health insurance (its done now with boring regularity).
This is bad, but the good news is, or the silver lining, is America's masses will all live in harmony and peace. We will be grateful Obaammaa graced the White House doorway, with his dark shadow........................But wait ... what about those dirty bastards that do not pay their Health Care? They will say they are the problem. They are why the health care program is going broke. It will be easy to cast them as villains. Remember the deadbeat dads of Clinton's welfare bill? ... His bill paved the way for states to villainize deadbeat dads by criminalizing them. They only needed to award judgments much higher than they could afford. That's why we have guys making only 10 bucks an hour and debts to the state 250k and higher. They over award the judgments, making it too high to pay. If you can't get the money, you have no choice, you can't pay. Then, usually most states charge 10% interest. The debt will never go away. They are a slave of half their income for the rest of there life.......The kid doesn't see the money, he or she is long gone. This is enforced by: garnishments, seizing accounts and assets, personal liens, real estate liens, license suspension, both driving and professional, seizing your passport. Don't forget an arrest warrant.
My concern is over time they will villainize the dead beat insurance citizen. In time, they will pass a bill to reform health care deadbeats. Then otherwise ordinary people will now be criminals.
I'm sure you will agree..............
I heard this on the radio the other day; I was listening to a conservative talk show. (I some times listen to the liberals show for a laugh.) This guy called in and said: "I'm sure you will agree....." The host stopped him and pointed out that his statement is some thing like a Yale debate team tactic. ( I've never been to Yale, so I dont know; they're probably closet homos anyway). To say "I'm sure you will agree" is a way to present a supposition to the listener(s) that;whom your speaking to agrees, with out him saying a word, there by gaining a point or an edge. You can use this to lead into two points in one statement. of course, an obvious statement in retort is " well, no I dont agree at all......" . But, still in doing this they have to divide your points, and address each individually by there own flaws (as-it were).
I have tried to debate with liberals its hard to do,even when your right;your still wrong. Slamming your dick in the door is more rewarding.
I have often wondered if learning debate tactics would aid in the cause of winning our country back. Suppose your at a table with some liberals, when politics come up (you know it will)If you were able to debate convincingly, You dont need to win; per se, If you are able to get there minds looking in the right direction.To see the big picture. even if people can be made to see only one truth at a time then over time, truths fall in place. The big picture of things seems to be a unanimous flaw in liberals; there thought is usually limited to what government will give them for free, they are oblivious to the fact that our government makes no money. Any money they have given, away they stole from another. I have known several liberals and mostly they seem to believe what ever they are told by there heroes, they dont seem to wonder why or how; like : Do we need another government program, and how is the money gotten to pay for it.
I have some family members and acquaintances that are very liberal, I have found them to be of poor moral fiber, Greedy, dishonest, and stupid or naive.
I'm sure you will agree,
Happy Trails!
I have tried to debate with liberals its hard to do,even when your right;your still wrong. Slamming your dick in the door is more rewarding.
I have often wondered if learning debate tactics would aid in the cause of winning our country back. Suppose your at a table with some liberals, when politics come up (you know it will)If you were able to debate convincingly, You dont need to win; per se, If you are able to get there minds looking in the right direction.To see the big picture. even if people can be made to see only one truth at a time then over time, truths fall in place. The big picture of things seems to be a unanimous flaw in liberals; there thought is usually limited to what government will give them for free, they are oblivious to the fact that our government makes no money. Any money they have given, away they stole from another. I have known several liberals and mostly they seem to believe what ever they are told by there heroes, they dont seem to wonder why or how; like : Do we need another government program, and how is the money gotten to pay for it.
I have some family members and acquaintances that are very liberal, I have found them to be of poor moral fiber, Greedy, dishonest, and stupid or naive.
I'm sure you will agree,
Happy Trails!
Tuesday, December 15, 2009
Retreat-Ranch in progress, part III
This is the 3rd part in a series of posts of how I got and built my ranch retreat land with a tight budget. If your new to this please see part one and work up to this post. In the comment section yesterday Joseph from Texas (I'm guessing that's where he hales) mentioned in Fannin Co. TX there are septic permits required but building permits are not required outside of of town and city.(good to note for retreat options)(personally I think TX is a good option for a retreat) I was planning on moving on to the out buildings, but his post reminded me that the septic is perhaps the most important thing to consider when deciding where to put the buildings. Even if your plans are for an out-house it is wise to build in a location that will allow for a septic if you prefer to install one after the buildings. You wouldn't want to build on the low ground that would require a pump for sewage; It is done in modern building code these days when its the only option. Of course no power will mean no septic. That's no fun. Also some locations will not allow you to install a septic,near ponds,streams and rivers, Perhaps even springs. They may require holding tanks, these do not leach liquids, there for they require pumping often, perhaps several times a year.The county planners office is generally the source for this information. Even if you plan on an outlaw septic, its probably a good idea to be within the legal guide lines. Also, on the subject of locations, Survival blog, has a very comprehensive list regarding retreat locations, covering everything from gun laws to weather. I think if I could choose; I would rather a warmer climate, other than that, I have on complaints.
I don't remember if I mentioned that along the way some mistakes were made, and those mistakes will also be covered in these series of posts. I'm hoping it will prevent others from doing the same; No sense in us both doing something stupid. The county planner will have all the information you need to satisfy requirements, some counties require that a contractor with a septic license be the one to install the septic system. This will also add a significant expense to your retreat, If you have the money, they will make the time; and getter done. If your like me and don't have the money; even if I did have the money, I could think of a million better places to put it, guns, food, building materials, a well, fencing, livestock,tires for the truck and still have money for more guns, or I know; a jet boat!.................... the point is, I have more time than money.
An outlaw septic is, as you might of guessed; a septic with out a permit. In the off chance a person is ever busted with an 'outlaw septic' tell them; that it was here when I bought the property-so I hooked up to-it......... Just let them prove otherwise......... Chances are, in a remote location no one will look twice. A friend of mine got caught before he buried his tank. He was asked to get a permit before proceeding. They only noticed him because he had a huge two story house already framed-up, and it was visible from the Hwy. Remember any information you give to any governmental agency is forwarded to another agency, for other reasons. A permit to transport a mobile home from point A to point B will likely be forwarded to agencies in location of point B. They may stop by to have a look around. By the way you cannot stop county tax and permit people from coming on your property. Ya, I know its BS but for now that's what we have to deal with. If you kick them off, they will return promptly with the law. If you used a gun to escort county man from the property you will go to jail-or die in a stand off. I suppose that's your choice, perhaps one could choose a better battle.
Wow how did I do that, going from sewage to shoot-outs. Anyway, A septic is very easy to make. I had a friend living in a travel trailer he mad a septic by shooting holes in a 55gal. drum then he ran a short piece of PVC pipe from the top opening slightly above grade then buried it. Ran his RV line to the PVC line above ground,,,,, Done.....He lived there for years, and it never filled-up, in this case he would have just dug another, had it filled. With the holes for the liquid to drain underground, it takes a very long time for solids to fill a tank. This is of course, is the same principle of a legal septic except the liquid is leached at the tank, rather than the leach lines.
The only reason, as far as I know, they don't want the tank to leach directly, is it will sit underground in a mud pit. This won't matter except it will settle some as time goes by. Remember that when your placing your line from the top of the tank set it up extra long, extending in side the tank so if it settles the line will remain going inside the tank. In colder climates you will need to have all the lines underground. You would still run your line to the top of the tank, but your tank needs to be deeper, and you would have your line coming out the top of the tank to perhaps 90 Deg. and continue underground to your building. By the way, sewer line from the hardware or building supply place is going to be cheaper than PVC.pipe. Follow the directions on the glue and primer bottles made FOR that type of pipe.( I know this guy,a dumb ass liberal, he installed a bunch of lines underground he thought the glue alone would work ,and he wouldn't need primer; after they separated he had to dig up hundreds of feet of water line, luckily he owned a backhoe, go figure, makes enough to buy a backhoe, but not smart enough to read the instructions on a bottle. Well, he works for the state. nice!)
Ok now for the part where I did the stupid thing, As we all know; the water and sewer lines need to be under ground, in cold climates the colder the deeper, Codes are a good guide to follow even with an outlaw tank. I have had a sewer line freeze, that sucks having to go outside for #2, when its 30 below zero. Its an experience one should do with-out, if possible. The code in my area is a whopping 6ft underground. I have my lines at only 2 ft, with no problems. In most areas 1ft will probably do for an outlaw. The first septic was a disaster. I wanted something larger than an oil drum. I had a plastic water tank that was round, about 6ft across and 3 1/2 ft tall. so I dug a hole by hand, big enough for this tank to sit 2 ft below grade (there is a new style of septic tank that is plastic. They are capsule shaped, this type would work well its not the type used here). The line ran from the tank to the house perhaps 15 ft long and maybe only a foot deep in some places. That winter the drains started to back up. The lines had frozen.The ground is now frozen so digging is impossible, its harder than concrete. I was screwed. Spring came, the lines started to thaw the drains worked again, a welcome luxury after going without. Then the spring rain came. Well, the wet mud was just too heavy. The damn tank collapsed. A tank for hauling water,was not sturdy enough to bear out-side weight. It seems obvious NOW. But, at the time it seemed like a good idea.
The second septic worked much better, and has been in use for 9 years. I found a large steel tank a friend had it sitting in a scrap pile. It was perhaps, 7 ft tall and 6ft around. I rented a skid steer from town to dig the hole. This time, I dug next to the house, I figured no sense in running a long line from the house, more chance for it to freeze. This time that hole was deep, maybe 13 ft down right next to the house. The sewer line ran under the house then angled down from under the house right into the top of the tank. I had used a blow torch to cut leach holes in the top half of the tank, basically holes all over, in no order. the line from the house, runs at a bout 45 deg, under ground into the tank, and reaches several feet inside the tank. This way if the tank settles the line will remain in side it. I have never had a problem since.
Here are some other things I know on this subject: Outlaw tanks are common, most ranches do this for the other smaller houses. An outhouse is easy to build, and cheap or free if you use scrap lumber. It would have been nice to have an outhouse when the septic failed, besides they add character to a place, if you have outside guests in the warm months it could be handy. If you dig sewer lines and for some reason you can't get them deep enough, Cut scrap pieces of (OSB) strand board in strips, place them over the line then bury-it. Also mounding dirt over the septic tank or line will also help prevent from freezing. I have seen a new type of plastic septic tank, also a cistern, either or. the type I saw was yellow not the white type. In the farm supply store. They were cheap maybe 350 or so. They are made to be buried so there much stronger than a water hauling tank. Traditional septic and cistern tanks are cement, You will need heavy equipment to move them. The plastic ones you can drag by hand. Digging in most areas is easiest in the spring. Hauling water to your site with a pick-up water tank can help digging keep soaking the hole then dig the mud. I would also check the prices of a rental skidsteer, A backhoe is nice but if you haven't used them it will take most of the day to learn, on a rental time is money.
Happy Trails!
I don't remember if I mentioned that along the way some mistakes were made, and those mistakes will also be covered in these series of posts. I'm hoping it will prevent others from doing the same; No sense in us both doing something stupid. The county planner will have all the information you need to satisfy requirements, some counties require that a contractor with a septic license be the one to install the septic system. This will also add a significant expense to your retreat, If you have the money, they will make the time; and getter done. If your like me and don't have the money; even if I did have the money, I could think of a million better places to put it, guns, food, building materials, a well, fencing, livestock,tires for the truck and still have money for more guns, or I know; a jet boat!.................... the point is, I have more time than money.
An outlaw septic is, as you might of guessed; a septic with out a permit. In the off chance a person is ever busted with an 'outlaw septic' tell them; that it was here when I bought the property-so I hooked up to-it......... Just let them prove otherwise......... Chances are, in a remote location no one will look twice. A friend of mine got caught before he buried his tank. He was asked to get a permit before proceeding. They only noticed him because he had a huge two story house already framed-up, and it was visible from the Hwy. Remember any information you give to any governmental agency is forwarded to another agency, for other reasons. A permit to transport a mobile home from point A to point B will likely be forwarded to agencies in location of point B. They may stop by to have a look around. By the way you cannot stop county tax and permit people from coming on your property. Ya, I know its BS but for now that's what we have to deal with. If you kick them off, they will return promptly with the law. If you used a gun to escort county man from the property you will go to jail-or die in a stand off. I suppose that's your choice, perhaps one could choose a better battle.
Wow how did I do that, going from sewage to shoot-outs. Anyway, A septic is very easy to make. I had a friend living in a travel trailer he mad a septic by shooting holes in a 55gal. drum then he ran a short piece of PVC pipe from the top opening slightly above grade then buried it. Ran his RV line to the PVC line above ground,,,,, Done.....He lived there for years, and it never filled-up, in this case he would have just dug another, had it filled. With the holes for the liquid to drain underground, it takes a very long time for solids to fill a tank. This is of course, is the same principle of a legal septic except the liquid is leached at the tank, rather than the leach lines.
The only reason, as far as I know, they don't want the tank to leach directly, is it will sit underground in a mud pit. This won't matter except it will settle some as time goes by. Remember that when your placing your line from the top of the tank set it up extra long, extending in side the tank so if it settles the line will remain going inside the tank. In colder climates you will need to have all the lines underground. You would still run your line to the top of the tank, but your tank needs to be deeper, and you would have your line coming out the top of the tank to perhaps 90 Deg. and continue underground to your building. By the way, sewer line from the hardware or building supply place is going to be cheaper than PVC.pipe. Follow the directions on the glue and primer bottles made FOR that type of pipe.( I know this guy,a dumb ass liberal, he installed a bunch of lines underground he thought the glue alone would work ,and he wouldn't need primer; after they separated he had to dig up hundreds of feet of water line, luckily he owned a backhoe, go figure, makes enough to buy a backhoe, but not smart enough to read the instructions on a bottle. Well, he works for the state. nice!)
Ok now for the part where I did the stupid thing, As we all know; the water and sewer lines need to be under ground, in cold climates the colder the deeper, Codes are a good guide to follow even with an outlaw tank. I have had a sewer line freeze, that sucks having to go outside for #2, when its 30 below zero. Its an experience one should do with-out, if possible. The code in my area is a whopping 6ft underground. I have my lines at only 2 ft, with no problems. In most areas 1ft will probably do for an outlaw. The first septic was a disaster. I wanted something larger than an oil drum. I had a plastic water tank that was round, about 6ft across and 3 1/2 ft tall. so I dug a hole by hand, big enough for this tank to sit 2 ft below grade (there is a new style of septic tank that is plastic. They are capsule shaped, this type would work well its not the type used here). The line ran from the tank to the house perhaps 15 ft long and maybe only a foot deep in some places. That winter the drains started to back up. The lines had frozen.The ground is now frozen so digging is impossible, its harder than concrete. I was screwed. Spring came, the lines started to thaw the drains worked again, a welcome luxury after going without. Then the spring rain came. Well, the wet mud was just too heavy. The damn tank collapsed. A tank for hauling water,was not sturdy enough to bear out-side weight. It seems obvious NOW. But, at the time it seemed like a good idea.
The second septic worked much better, and has been in use for 9 years. I found a large steel tank a friend had it sitting in a scrap pile. It was perhaps, 7 ft tall and 6ft around. I rented a skid steer from town to dig the hole. This time, I dug next to the house, I figured no sense in running a long line from the house, more chance for it to freeze. This time that hole was deep, maybe 13 ft down right next to the house. The sewer line ran under the house then angled down from under the house right into the top of the tank. I had used a blow torch to cut leach holes in the top half of the tank, basically holes all over, in no order. the line from the house, runs at a bout 45 deg, under ground into the tank, and reaches several feet inside the tank. This way if the tank settles the line will remain in side it. I have never had a problem since.
Here are some other things I know on this subject: Outlaw tanks are common, most ranches do this for the other smaller houses. An outhouse is easy to build, and cheap or free if you use scrap lumber. It would have been nice to have an outhouse when the septic failed, besides they add character to a place, if you have outside guests in the warm months it could be handy. If you dig sewer lines and for some reason you can't get them deep enough, Cut scrap pieces of (OSB) strand board in strips, place them over the line then bury-it. Also mounding dirt over the septic tank or line will also help prevent from freezing. I have seen a new type of plastic septic tank, also a cistern, either or. the type I saw was yellow not the white type. In the farm supply store. They were cheap maybe 350 or so. They are made to be buried so there much stronger than a water hauling tank. Traditional septic and cistern tanks are cement, You will need heavy equipment to move them. The plastic ones you can drag by hand. Digging in most areas is easiest in the spring. Hauling water to your site with a pick-up water tank can help digging keep soaking the hole then dig the mud. I would also check the prices of a rental skidsteer, A backhoe is nice but if you haven't used them it will take most of the day to learn, on a rental time is money.
Happy Trails!
Monday, December 14, 2009
Retreat-Ranch in progress, part II
Ranch Retreat, The Purchase II
This is the second part of a multiple part post describing my Ranch Retreat project from the ground up. Please see part I, if you haven’t already. I included the complete and some times mundane portions to provide a detailed account. Buying land is a huge but necessary step, perhaps even stressful. Of course, owning the vacant land has a sense of security all its own. Building something on your own land has a reward that’s tough to describe, you will know what I mean when you start, if you’ve already done it , you already know.
When we left the last post, I was gathering information on the property, here are some of the things I found. Good news is, its bordered completely by BLM (public land). This is good for me, for several reasons, no chance of ever having neighbors, federal lands are almost never sold. Additional hunting and recreational access to thousands of acres is just over the fence line. For investment aspects it helps to preserve value and is likely to enhance value in the future, since public land will not change from its current condition. From a survivalist aspect you can rule out conflicts from neighbors (since there are none) when a disaster or collapse occurs. Another obvious bonus, natural land is austicitly pleasing. The biggest advantage is NO restrictions and NO covenance. By the way a worth while point to mention; Montana does not require a building permit, out side of a city for a private or residential building. Using the property information from the county, maps and other online sources, I was able to triangulate property boundaries to GPS-coordinates from this; I could walk the property knowing actual boundary lines. Giving me a precise knowledge of what exactily the property entails.
The biggest bonus is No power nearby. I checked with the power company to get an idea of the costs involved to bring in power, the nearest line was 15 miles away……They were talking upwards of 200k to bring in power (price includes sex, If you count them bending me over). So the money to bring power in would still leave 1.5 million for the rest of the project! Just kidding! Getting the 200k for power is as likely as a man from Kenya being elected president……Ahh, well maybe not a good example. The thing Is I don’t have 200k I can not get it. But, still a plus because, neither can most people. I will use this as a bargaining chip, for price negotiation (that’s why it’s a bonus). The fact is even if power were only say, 5k I still wouldn’t do it. Come on, why would I give them a huge chunk of money so I can pay them 200 dollars every month, to use there power, Ill use the wind to make mine, the power company makes enough money already, They don’t need my help, I don’t need theirs. I’ll do my own thing. (power companies are as bad as government, Its nice they will pay a guy 40+bucks an hour to drive around in a pick-up, then retire at 80% pay; for the rest of there life)……No thanks, I’ll keep my money for myself.(they can keep the change).
Now, lets check with the owner and get some price ideas, I gave the owner a call to soften the low ball bid. Not to give him a bid, but to let him know I was still interested….I let him know the huge price tag for line power (If one is polite its easy to give negative information to improve your position. Nobody likes an ass, I try not to be one.). I wanted to let him stew on that a while. Now, I had some cash, I had sold everything I could think of, This purchase would likely take every thing I had. Remember I am not rich far from It. I was railroaded by the state of California, yes they can reach you in Montana, any where in the US for that mater . They had been bleeding me for a while so I was taped but with the sale of my possessions, and the extra cash work, money added up quickly. The seller called me back a couple days later, this was a good, sign he had to know, I was planning on low balling him. He asked me if I had an offer for him. I took the chance and shot him an offer, After a long-long pause he came back with a higher offer, Then I paused for a while. I said well lets split the difference. He said Ok. This was good because that was all the money I had. We maid plans to close the next month. (I will have another post on deeds and closing to cover all the technical details to close with out a closing agent or attorney for now were looking at the big pic.). I didn’t give the dollar amount because the price is not as important, as the idea; there are some bargains out there, if you look hard, and are astute enough to recognize opportunity.
So, the closing went off with-out a hitch. I’ve got the land, now the work starts.
To be continued in part III
This is the second part of a multiple part post describing my Ranch Retreat project from the ground up. Please see part I, if you haven’t already. I included the complete and some times mundane portions to provide a detailed account. Buying land is a huge but necessary step, perhaps even stressful. Of course, owning the vacant land has a sense of security all its own. Building something on your own land has a reward that’s tough to describe, you will know what I mean when you start, if you’ve already done it , you already know.
When we left the last post, I was gathering information on the property, here are some of the things I found. Good news is, its bordered completely by BLM (public land). This is good for me, for several reasons, no chance of ever having neighbors, federal lands are almost never sold. Additional hunting and recreational access to thousands of acres is just over the fence line. For investment aspects it helps to preserve value and is likely to enhance value in the future, since public land will not change from its current condition. From a survivalist aspect you can rule out conflicts from neighbors (since there are none) when a disaster or collapse occurs. Another obvious bonus, natural land is austicitly pleasing. The biggest advantage is NO restrictions and NO covenance. By the way a worth while point to mention; Montana does not require a building permit, out side of a city for a private or residential building. Using the property information from the county, maps and other online sources, I was able to triangulate property boundaries to GPS-coordinates from this; I could walk the property knowing actual boundary lines. Giving me a precise knowledge of what exactily the property entails.
The biggest bonus is No power nearby. I checked with the power company to get an idea of the costs involved to bring in power, the nearest line was 15 miles away……They were talking upwards of 200k to bring in power (price includes sex, If you count them bending me over). So the money to bring power in would still leave 1.5 million for the rest of the project! Just kidding! Getting the 200k for power is as likely as a man from Kenya being elected president……Ahh, well maybe not a good example. The thing Is I don’t have 200k I can not get it. But, still a plus because, neither can most people. I will use this as a bargaining chip, for price negotiation (that’s why it’s a bonus). The fact is even if power were only say, 5k I still wouldn’t do it. Come on, why would I give them a huge chunk of money so I can pay them 200 dollars every month, to use there power, Ill use the wind to make mine, the power company makes enough money already, They don’t need my help, I don’t need theirs. I’ll do my own thing. (power companies are as bad as government, Its nice they will pay a guy 40+bucks an hour to drive around in a pick-up, then retire at 80% pay; for the rest of there life)……No thanks, I’ll keep my money for myself.(they can keep the change).
Now, lets check with the owner and get some price ideas, I gave the owner a call to soften the low ball bid. Not to give him a bid, but to let him know I was still interested….I let him know the huge price tag for line power (If one is polite its easy to give negative information to improve your position. Nobody likes an ass, I try not to be one.). I wanted to let him stew on that a while. Now, I had some cash, I had sold everything I could think of, This purchase would likely take every thing I had. Remember I am not rich far from It. I was railroaded by the state of California, yes they can reach you in Montana, any where in the US for that mater . They had been bleeding me for a while so I was taped but with the sale of my possessions, and the extra cash work, money added up quickly. The seller called me back a couple days later, this was a good, sign he had to know, I was planning on low balling him. He asked me if I had an offer for him. I took the chance and shot him an offer, After a long-long pause he came back with a higher offer, Then I paused for a while. I said well lets split the difference. He said Ok. This was good because that was all the money I had. We maid plans to close the next month. (I will have another post on deeds and closing to cover all the technical details to close with out a closing agent or attorney for now were looking at the big pic.). I didn’t give the dollar amount because the price is not as important, as the idea; there are some bargains out there, if you look hard, and are astute enough to recognize opportunity.
So, the closing went off with-out a hitch. I’ve got the land, now the work starts.
To be continued in part III
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